Golf Sim Clubhouse Forum

This issue was probably addressed in the old forums, which unfortunately was before my time here. I was just curious if it was Program Idiosyncratic or just a design oversite. Basically the issue is, on certain courses, some holes have the texture designations (those beyond the fairway) reversed. No biggy as it appears the various roughs play as per their location and not as per their designated title.See graphic for an example.
Thanks, Dave

Sometimes a 'rough' texture will be used, in this case becsuse it was lighter I guess. Some plain 'rough' textures are set in the architect to have varying depth. I know of 1 library that I used for Hawthorne just had a 'rough' and it would occasionally be deep rough right next to the fairway and light rough from 60 yards left of the fairway. You can create rough to be that way in the architect, as well as sand.

I hope that helps.

Doron

[quote="bryce"]Sometimes a 'rough' texture will be used, in this case becsuse it was lighter I guess. Some plain 'rough' textures are set in the architect to have varying depth. I know of 1 library that I used for Hawthorne just had a 'rough' and it would occasionally be deep rough right next to the fairway and light rough from 60 yards left of the fairway. You can create rough to be that way in the architect, as well as sand.

I hope that helps. [quote="bryce"]

I really appreciate your response, bryce, and I guess you are saying that if one designer creates a texture that looks like water but designates it sand then that is what other designers are stuck with, if they like that texture and want to use it. Apparently The PGA2000 Course Architect won't let you change that?
However, here, this particular designer (Robert@) , one of the best, so I gather from the comments of other designers, surely would know that it makes no sense to have deep rough 2 inches from the fairway, no matter how lovely he thought the texture was that someone else may have designed and allocated. Anyway, that's not my point. The texture next to the fairway looks the same throughout the course, but only shows up as deep rough on a few holes. The rest of the holes it's "fringe". Plus around this green if you miss the green by 15 yds you are in light rough, miss it by 5 yds it's medium rough and just miss it (similar to the fwy shot) and it's deep rough. That, to me, seems illogical. If I were the designer I would have created my own textures or used other textures that registered correctly in the game. Personally, I still think this situation is much more complicated than you designers are willing to admit. Originally I thought the answer might be simple so I didn't add that other info about around the green. Never fear though, I'm still enjoying playing the various highly rated courses, but I continue to be mystified by all the wierd stuff that occurs while trying to play many of the custom designed ones.
Cheers, Dave

For a texture set as rough you can designate 3 different texture properties for the same texture. The game randomly picks one of these any time you are on that texture. I believe this is also affected by what you set the rough length in game options. It will come up light, medium, or heavy more often depending on what you set. Some designers just set all 3 as the same and in that case the texture always plays the same. In order for another designer to change the properties they would have to either get the original source file from the designer or take a screenshot of it in the library manager and put it in a new library.

Some deep rough plays like fringe and some fringe plays like deep rough. All depends in what librarys are used and how that creator decided on calling them. In most of my courses I rarely used one set of textures to build a course. Instead picking a variety of grasses to achieve a look i may have been trying to achieve. Mixing up some textures I also thought on certain holes and having a player find those textures would be relative to getting a bad lie,in this case its the fringe. When you have players shooting -16 for 18 holes on your course you end up trying any diabolical scheme to slow there pace.Sorry!
Only my last couple courses did I create my own librarys.

One of my pet peeves is ANY course that uses a weed rough or heavy rough 2" edge seperating fairway to 1st cut. Or in this case a more difficult rough texture as a 1st cut then any of the other textures. I have found several exellent courses that have done this. It lowers the score for a course a tad in my opinion.

SteveHorn wrote:One of my pet peeves is ANY course that uses a weed rough or heavy rough 2" edge seperating fairway to 1st cut. Or in this case a more difficult rough texture as a 1st cut then any of the other textures. I have found several exellent courses that have done this. It lowers the score for a course a tad in my opinion.

Thanks, for your candor Steve. I totally agree with you. Your response is much appreciated. The strange thing with this particular course is (and the reason I brought it up in the first place ) the textures play normally. That is, the fringe designated as deep rough plays like fringe. Medium rough (the next texture from the fairway) plays like lite rough and lite rough plays like deep rough. It was nice of robert@ to respond, but he didn't address that issue (one of my favorite designers by the way).
Maybe I need to ask another question. Can a texture called deep rough be renamed fringe?. I already know you can make it play as fringe because that is how it plays on this course, so why can't a designer just rename a deep rough texture he has borrowed from somewhere as fringe if that is how he plans to use it? Also, I still really don't get why a designer wants the fringe as deep rough. even on U.S open courses the fringe and the first cut are usually quite playable. Why would a designer feel a player who hits the ball 2" beyond the fairway should be in deep rough? Where is the precedent for that? Don't forget ,this is a forum where most of the designers seem to feel this is the most realistic golf game ever made. So surely there must be logical answers to my questions. robert@ says it is to make the course more difficult. well I have to agree with him, if that is what he planned but, as I said previously ,once you figure out the textures play as located not as designated there is no problem on this course, so yes it was difficult when I wasn't paying attention and chose 3 clubs more from the deep rough (fringe) or chose 3 clubs less from the light rough (deep rough). Personally I find most custom course difficult enough as is. Still, I have yet to play a course where the fringe looks like fringe but plays as deep rough, so I can't get my head around why there is a need to try to trick a player into chosing the wrong club. Anyone got a course in mind that actually is designed as robert@ noted? I would be interested in playing it, just to see if I could break 300!
Cheers, Dave

Dave that 2" deep rough at a edge of fairway or fringe isnt there to penalize a player. Its only there to give the illusion of a different grass height or cut. You can not rename textures in a library you didnt create. Now if i had my choice I would use a darker fairway or fringe texture for that cut so it would play correctly. However that isnt all that easy. Matching grain and shade from one set of textures to another is difficult at best. But it can be done. When using more then one set of textures,as i have in the course you pictured,the fairway is from one library while the fringe and rough may be from another. Off the top of my head the metropolitan and kingston heath librarys are very similar in textures,both can be used together.However the names of the textures are different. Without being more confusing then i already am,its simply a case of how a course looks. Playability is important,but if a course doesnt look appealing chances are its not going to get played. As a designer you try to succeed in both,but sometimes achieving a look of realism collides with the playability. Thus a 2" deep rough at the edge of a fairway.
I`m sure if you keep playing(and enjoying i hope)my courses you`ll find yourself cursing me from time to time. Thats expected!

My guess is that whoever created the library that has the deep rough/fringe texture either mistakenly hit fringe on one of the three options, or simply forgot to change it again later.

Unfortunately, there is no way you can change that.

I guess you have to play with the idea in mind "rub of the green." The odds are pretty slim that a shot is going to find its way into that 2" strip of deep rough, but how often in a real game of golf does your ball roll into a divot or bare ground or a weedy little patch? The point is, it happens and you just have to deal with it. Unfortunately very few libraries have every texture necessary to build a course from green out to the farthest reaches so the designers have had to do the best they can to select libes that give the necessary textures and hopefully colors, and sometimes it becomes a tradeoff. Most experienced designers like Robert@ learned how to deal with it. Perhaps people speaking up 12 years ago could have made a difference and libraries would be both more complete and there wouldn't be any mislabeling or wrong textures.