"B-List" Courses

[Indy Anna Jones]

Hookster, I was being facetious with my comment about scoring. I do know what you're talking about regarding scoring. I mentioned in another post that 10 years ago Coyote Bluff was one of my favorite courses (and was a big favorite on '99) then. Today all I'd have to do is get it on the green somewhere within 30' of the hole and 1 putt every green because they're all flat as pancakes (literally.) But it's still a beautiful design. I also understand what Dar says about "subjective" judgment and especially the scalpel analogy. I recall someone posting on the old board, "rate your top 10 courses." I couldn't even begin to do that and would probably have a hard time with top 50 or 100. Favorite links, favorite mountain, favorite seaside... where would you even begin? It also seems like once a week Gary, Jack and I play a course none of us have ever played before and go "wow, how did we miss this?" Today it was Tennessee River North... it's been on my HD since 2004 but for some reason never played. I also calculated that in the 4 months (so far) of this year, playing 5 games a week on average, and that including some replays of favorites, we've played less than 5% of the courses available and maybe 10% of the A & B list courses.

But THAT'S what makes it still a great game!

[Robert@]

Dars list of "A" and "B" courses are something to help others that have not played all 1600+ courses decided somehow what they might want to download and give a try. Mygolfer and Copyright both had a tally on how many downloads a certain course may have. This I found to be the best way to see what others like and are downloading. Unfortunatly this site doesnt have that so Dars list becomes the next best thing. As designer its impossible to build a course that that is challenging to all,and would be considered an "a" list course by all. There are so many different skill levels and methods of play that you just cant make a course that would be considered to be the best in any catagory.
I would think to help narrow the courses down even more say on the "A" list courses of some 400 or more, that perhaps dar could give them further ratings,of adding more A`s..for difficulty instead of just an "A" course a harder one might warrant a "AA" and really dificult ones a "AAA". Just my thoughts.

Hookster...I`ll try to build you a "AAAAAAA" lol

[spencerturner]

I agree with Robert@ in part about how under Copyright Club you could see how many players had downloaded a certain course. This would give you some idea of its approval rating and standing among the players and would indicate that it was or was not worth downloading. Not always 100 percent but it was helpful. the A, AA and AAA rating might be helpful here but it might also cause you to miss downloading some really good courses. Not sure, but interesting. Spencer.

[spencerturner]

I have to agree with Steve Horn"s comment about Augusta 2001 not being on the A list. I think it is a great design and I find nothing wrong with the graphics. I also prefer the TPC Sawgrass course by Chris Anderson to the more recent version. But like Dar says its all subjective. Respectfully, Spencer.

[hookster]

Looking forward to your aaaaa Robert lol. And for as much work as Dar already does for the game the rest of our gang along with Dar have been rating these courses and we will start adding more A`s and maybe a small comment as to why we rated it that way. And I totally agree spence the Older Sawgrass is one of my favorites and we were just saying the other day that we thought the difficulty was greater on the older one and enjoy it more than the new one.

[tincup]

I have to agree with Steve Horn"s comment about Augusta 2001 not being on the A list. I think it is a great design and I find nothing wrong with the graphics. I also prefer the TPC Sawgrass course by Chris Anderson to the more recent version. But like Dar says its all subjective. Respectfully, Spencer.

Hey, I'm flexible. Augusta 2001 has now been raised to A-List status along with the 2005 version.

Dar

[BrianZ111]

One thing to note is the list is the opinion of the best players in the game and since course difficulty is a criteria that may not make sense for new members. They probably aren't going to be great players shooting super low numbers. Certainly it's a good place to start but there's a lot of great courses out there not on the list, particularly in the real courses section since they tend to play too easy for the experts. It's great that we have a list and I thank you guys for doing it, but that's just something to keep in mind.

[Indy Anna Jones]

Spence I can remember the Copyright Club rating system. It was pretty accurate if a course had 100+ ratings or so, but I also remember unpopular designers having a slew of 1's within hours of the time a new course was released.

Statistically I'd say that I agree with Dar on at least 95% of his "A" list courses, both pro and con. Less than that on his "B" listers; some I feel are "A"s and others not really "B" quality, but again it's subjective. Everybody has his/her likes/dislikes in styles of courses; some may rate a course higher or lower because of a designer; some may be triggers by some small thing like too much planting/too little planting.

I just appreciate that Dar and his fellow players take the time to rate the courses and give the lists. I appreciate the efforts of Bryce in reviewing "oldies but goodies", those who take the time and effort to review new releases, and those who might post about their old favorites or some unplayed course that they really took a fancy to. I also appreciate and enjoy the old reviews that were salvaged from Copyright Club... lotsa trips down memory lane there.

[SteveHorn]

I hope I didn't open a can of worms.

[tincup]

I hope I didn't open a can of worms.

lol... naw Steve... this can of worms has been open for years. The worms just decide to crawl out from time to time

I think it is really good that we discuss this subject. As you can see, there is no perfect way to rate courses. There are a zillion variables. But if we just have something that helps new people concentrate on downloading some of the better courses, I think it is worthwhile to do.

I can fairly easily disect the A-List (420 courses) into three finer categories if you think that would be helpful:
1. My favorite A-Listers (27)
2. Top-tier A-Listers (144)
3. The rest of the A-Listers (249)

Let me know if you think that would be worth doing.

Dar