Questions and Comments re Game playability

[stillgolfing]

I first would like to say I'm enjoying my reunion with PGA2000 and appreciate the valuable support I have received as a Forum newbie. Great group here, and a special thanks to Judy and TinCup.
Although I've had this sim installed on all my PC's over many years I never really got the hang of it, and ended up focussing on Links2003 for my Computer Golfing fix. In fact over 10 years, until last week I had yet to complete a game on PGA2000. The main reason being I could not master any of the various swing methods available. I currently am achieving the best results playing 3-click at the Standard Level. Even though I rarely hit the proper timing swing bars dead on, at least it's forgiving enough at this level that I usually hit the fairways and a lot of greens and broke par on the two courses I have completed so far. Unfortunately, I still find putting pretty well a pig in a poke and end up with too many 4 puts (continually blasting it 8 ft by from 5ft). The meter speed is just way too fast on short puts for me, consequently faster greens e.g. Bali Shandra, which I downloaded yesterday are almost impossible. My shortest click distance is equivalent to about 8ft on normal greens so here I'm blasting short puts 12 ft by. Is it possible that the PGA2000 swing meter runs faster on certain PC configs?
The reason I ask is I had a similar problem with Links2003 when I first installed it on this machine (the swing bar was a blur) and had to play it at the Amateur Level, where I had always played Elite on my previous PC; At the time there was no solution available in the Links Forums, so for the first couple of years I just used my old PC as my Links2003 simulator. Strangely, after installing service pack3 for XP on this machine, the Links2003 swing meter returned to normal.
Similarly, I was wondering (since it appears the designer controls green speed not the player - newbie assumption based on minimal experience and reading some course review comments) can fairway textures be manipulated to produce significantly different club distance results? The reason I ask is, normally the "caddie" club selection is good for the distance required and I usually only have to change clubs for head or tail winds (I'm usually playing no wind, which appears to fluctate between 3 and 8 miles per hr). However, when I tried playing Silent Monk the other day. I could not get over the pond on the second hole. I think initially I was 160 yds out with a 5 iron and landed in the front of the pond, kept dropping at the same location and taking one more club until I finally hit it over the green with a 3 wood, even though the shot before (a perfect 5 wood) was short in the pond . Is there any logical explanation for this type of discrepancy in club selection?
I also wondered why on the noted drop shot the drop area was always back where I had hit from and not from in front of the hazard? I'm guessing this is just part of the original game design, as on another course Sax Gotha I think, I was hitting a 3 wood from about 220 over a creek that ran in front and around the right side of the green. I hit the green but it was severly sloped and the ball bounced right ran off the green to the right and rolled back into the hazard, my drop was back in the fairway 220 out instead of where it last crossed the hazard. I'm not giving up on the old girl yet, but I think I would be more tolerant of the idiosyncracies of the game if I had a better understanding of what is going on.
Thanks in advance for any info/assistance Dave

[sandwedge]

Hitting over the water in PGA2000 is always a difficult thing - it does appear that you need extra club to do it. We have discussed it in the past - various ideas have been put forth - everything from an anomaly in the game to a realistic simulation of heavy air?

I am a tri-clicker myself and I have never found a difference in the swing meter on different PCs. I have played PGA 2000 on Windows 98, XP, Vista and now 7 and the swing meter speed has been consistent. Each of those PCs have been diferent set-ups too - not sure what you are seeing but knowing how goofy the interaction between software and hardware can be at times I certainly do not doubt your thoughts as to why it is happening. I know that doesn't help but I'm guessing you wanted some feedback from a tri-clicker. I might add here that actually in the early days of PGA2000 the tri-click method was maligned because it was said to be too easy - I have never found that to be the case but at least you can figure that those really souped up speeds are probably not to be the intended experience.

A work-around for hitting over the water is to adjust the loft of your club to shorten distance or to take advantage of the wind. I figure a loft of 2.0 shortens my distance by 10 yards; 2.5 - 15 yards; 3.0 - 20 yards and 2.5 - 25 yards. The height of the terrain affects distance too - I figure anything over 7 yards will affect my distance - so if the height to the pin is 10 yards from my position I figure on losing at least 3 yards of distance with my club of choice etc. I'm guessing this is confusing at this point - I guess trial and error is the best method as my figures are based on my swing and setup. I just wanted you to be aware that you can shorten the distance of your clubs and still take a full swing.

Welcome to our community by the way - I concur, the people here are very helpful - rare these days and much appreciated.

[Indy Anna Jones]

Stillgolfing, I put a note both here and on the course text that indeed, Bali Shandra has LIGHTNING fast greens; the textures actually play at least a full speed faster than listed (ie, wet=moist, VD=linoleum.) I am a bit surprised that you find PGA's meter faster than Links, though; that was the main (if not only reason) I couldn't get into links.

Check your PM box; I'm going to give you a couple of hitting and putting tips that have helped me tremendously.

[A Brandt]

In regards to where the drop point is, I believe it has to do with how the water texture is set by the designer in the library creator. If the designer did not set it as "water", then the game will not treat is as a water hazard. It sounds like the water texture you mention was set as "unplayable" only and the game then penalizes you with stroke and distance instead of dropping at the point of crossing the hazard.

[Indy Anna Jones]

I've mentioned this a zillion times in 10 years, but if PGA2K has ONE major weakness as a sim it's in dropping. I'm not up to date with USGA rules re hazards but as of 6 years ago, if you went into a water hazard (other than lateral which has its own rules) you could:
1. drop behind the point where the ball entered the hazard; or
2. take a stroke and distance penalty, and if on the tee you could retee the ball.
The game gives you option 1 but not option 2.

I wasn't aware that hazard settings were up to the designer but it still doesn't change the fact that the game will only allow to drop on the line behind where the ball entered the hazard (unless it goes into the water beyond the green, in which case you have to drop along that side with the ball usually rolling into the water a time or two before placing you in/on some horrible stuff like a brick wall or wood fence!)

One more thing I wish Headgate had stuck around to fix before heading off to EASports.

[stillgolfing]

In regards to where the drop point is, I believe it has to do with how the water texture is set by the designer in the library creator. If the designer did not set it as "water", then the game will not treat is as a water hazard. It sounds like the water texture you mention was set as "unplayable" only and the game then penalizes you with stroke and distance instead of dropping at the point of crossing the hazard.

Thanks, for this info. Definitely sounds like that is what is happenning in the situations I described.
Cheers,
Dave

[A Brandt]

Indy, Im not sure if the rules allow a stroke and distance penalty for a water hazard, but the game technically allows you to do that (I think). It's rather time consuming, but you could keep clicking 'drop backward' until you're back to the original shot position. Also, when creating a water texture in the library creator, you have to make sure the 'water' radio button is selected for texture 'type', otherwise it won't allow you to drop in the game.

[SteveHorn]

Adam! Many times I've tried with mixed results to drop back in the tee box or best area. If your ball enters a hazard at an angle that confuses the game it can take you in areas not even close to where the ball flight started.

[A Brandt]

Steve, I understand how that may happen! So only in the case that your ball enters the hazard on a true line from the tee would you be able to go back. It's fun learning all of the quirks of this ancient game!

[stillgolfing]

Adam! Many times I've tried with mixed results to drop back in the tee box or best area. If your ball enters a hazard at an angle that confuses the game it can take you in areas not even close to where the ball flight started.

Thanks for noting this Steve, because that was going to be my next question.
Yesterday while playing Bali Shandra (don't know which hole, but it has a creek running along the left side of the fairway and the tee is elevated) my ball hit well beyond the creek about 260 yds out and was rolling along the edge of the faiway, then rolled into the rough along the right side of the creek about halfway down the creek embankment (per the landing cam view). On the redraw it turned out the game determined I was in the hazard and had me droping about 160 yds back on the otherside (left) of the creek behind a bunch of trees. This makes no sense as my shot never had to cross the hazard from the tee. It was always parallel to it until it trickled on to the embankment at the end. Hardly the end of the world or anything, but certainly an unusual interpretation of the rules of golf.
Cheers, Dave