Sleeping Bear Downs - work in progress

[Goran]

Thanks for the screenshots Jeff, fantastic greensites as always. I played through my old favorites Heathland Downs and Black Valley for greensite inspiration for my ongoing design.

I started going through all of mine to make them less conservative and more adventurous. I am adding more up/down slopes at their edges and higher ridges while trying to keep the pins at the flattest pieces of the ground possible. If I have to sacrifice some pins so be it.
But my cautious nature is holding me back, will never be able to make them as wild and dangerous as yours. Going to keep my own smooth style though, just trying to add some spice.
I already made a boomerang green, but did not think of they could be like yours. Mine is the other way around with a deep bunker in front instead of a high sand dune behind (both in the middle biting into the green).

Looking forward to play Sleeping Bear, it looks like like an adventure game. Would be interesting to know how you make your landscape and greens, I see some controlled randomizing?

EDIT Sorry, did not mean to talk about my own designing in your post, I just envy your bold greensites lol. And also, did you make any more courses during my 10-15 years absence from playing GBC, other than Sawgrass?

[BradTheDad]

Hi Jeff,

I shouldn't talk (as I'm moving so slowly on my own designing) but I am glad to see you progressing this design. Your initial screenies had me enthralled, so am really looking forward to the final product.

Cheers

Brad

[JReel]

Thanks for the screenshots Jeff, fantastic greensites as always. I played through my old favorites Heathland Downs and Black Valley for greensite inspiration for my ongoing design.

I started going through all of mine to make them less conservative and more adventurous. I am adding more up/down slopes at their edges and higher ridges while trying to keep the pins at the flattest pieces of the ground possible. If I have to sacrifice some pins so be it.
But my cautious nature is holding me back, will never be able to make them as wild and dangerous as yours. Going to keep my own smooth style though, just trying to add some spice.
I already made a boomerang green, but did not think of they could be like yours. Mine is the other way around with a deep bunker in front instead of a high sand dune behind (both in the middle biting into the green).

Looking forward to play Sleeping Bear, it looks like like an adventure game. Would be interesting to know how you make your landscape and greens, I see some controlled randomizing?

EDIT Sorry, did not mean to talk about my own designing in your post, I just envy your bold greensites lol. And also, did you make any more courses during my 10-15 years absence from playing GBC, other than Sawgrass?

Hey Goran,

Good topic! I think greensites are really the heart and soul of any course. I've been fortunate to play a number of top 100 courses in real life and the best of the best have the most interesting and challenging green complexes. I was always intrigued by Seth Raynor's greensites, but prior to last year had never played a Raynor course. Well, I got ridiculously lucky and played three Raynor courses in 2022 (Yeamans Hall, Sleepy Hollow and Yale). They did not disappoint! The greensites were some of the best I've ever played and were fascinating (and inspirational!). One of these days I will get around to posting some pictures of those courses. Here's a really good article on green complexes by Gil Hanse: https://www.linksmagazine.com/architect ... complexes/

I've definitely been using the random terrain generator for SBD. I basically use it for the entire hole and then look across the plot until I find what looks like would be an interesting greensite, then work back from there and create the approach/landing area and tee boxes. It's a fun way to work with the designer.

Over the last few years other than Sawgrass, I did the par 3 course for Augusta National (the 18 hole version that has seven of my own original fictitious holes included) and Sleeping Bear National (which is the sister course to Sleeping Bear Downs... although I designed that one with one goal in mind: making it an extremely difficult test for the best GBC players).

I have to say that you've inspired me as well... I got a kick out of your post where you talked about Sim City and making more realistic surroundings. It inspired me to take a closer look at adding some detail to SBD to add to its realism.

Cheers!

Jeff

[Goran]

Did not know about Sleeping Bear National, but downloaded it and scored 85, thats 14 over par lol. I had computer Nicklaus play and he bettered me by a few shots. But this is a true work of art, incredible to look at although I dont have the playing skill for it.

Mike New and you were my mentors way back and Mike asked for me to finish his Falsterbo after working on it for years. Cant help wondering if he was mad at me after I smoothed the fairways and greens assuming it was very unfinished but maybe he wanted it that way. It was a bit like SBN but less extreme perhaps. He also designed it like you did by finding a greensite on a randomized hole window and working backwards.

I am not sure now why you both asked me to finish your designs Falsterbo and Gator Alley though, you both know ten times more about classic golf designing and are much more talented than I am. And you both knew I was a smoothing designer.

Well, Lars Sandstöm and I turned Falsterbo into a difficult but fun to play course and players loved it then but I doubt they would if he released it as it was lol. Lars helped me with a horizon and lots of objects to make it look like a finished product.

[Goran]

Been playing Sleeping Bear National at least 5 times now, and got down to +6 today always med ground and less wind. I play with the hi-res mod with the disadvantage of my grid starting a few meters away, which is not very helpful on this track. But the extreme sidehill lies are in the sand dunes and the fairways are smooth and nice.
Some of the views are spectecular with your ball rolling towards the camera, never seen on any other GBC course.

Not sure what I wanted to say but I guess I was hoping Sleeping Bear Downs is like its sister, but greens a tad more kind and fairer pins

[JReel]

Been playing Sleeping Bear National at least 5 times now, and got down to +6 today always med ground and less wind. I play with the hi-res mod with the disadvantage of my grid starting a few meters away, which is not very helpful on this track. But the extreme sidehill lies are in the sand dunes and the fairways are smooth and nice.
Some of the views are spectecular with your ball rolling towards the camera, never seen on any other GBC course.

Not sure what I wanted to say but I guess I was hoping Sleeping Bear Downs is like its sister, but greens a tad more kind and fairer pins

Thanks for the comments Goran. Yeah, Sleeping Bear National is tough and has some pins that are right on the edge of fairness. Sleeping Bear Downs will be (in theory) an easier track. It is almost 1,000 yards shorter than National and has much wider fairways and larger greens (for the most part). I think you'll enjoy it. Hopefully it will be ready for playtesting in the coming months.

[JReel]

Progress update...


The dual green-sites of the drivable par 4 tenth hole.


The Eden template - par 3 eleventh hole.


The Maiden template green-site at the par 5 twelfth hole.


Jack playing from a tough spot on the par 5 twelfth.

[Sundance]

Looking nice Jeff. I've always enjoyed the dual green holes. They add so much variety to a single hole!!

[Goran]

Not sure if I get the dual greens concept here Jeff, is that tiny piece to the left another green for the same hole but for other pins?
Or do you mean the green to the right is shared for another hole? On some scottish links courses like St Andrews dual greens means the green is shared for two holes, but in for example Japan they have two different greens for one hole.

EDIT When looking closer, the left one is not that tiny must be a green, so I guess it must be two different greens for this one hole.

Must be great fun to make a course with all these greensite templates, wish I thought of that but too late now as my design is finished. Only tried to make one template greensite, a boomerang green. I think it turned out alright will post a screen in my thread.

Sorry, now I keep on talk about my own designing in your thread again have to end that habit lol

[JReel]

Will post an update with new screenshots soon.